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Robert Grant
June 28th, 2013, 02:19 PM
You posted this comment in another thread: "There is a device profile for the Dish Hopper/Joey available in a pre-release version of KRR."

Very good news indeed. Look forward to testing. In the Dish Support forum, tech support posted this information about Hopper DNLA supported formats:

"Below are the supported formats for Hopper DLNA Playback:

Images - JPEG only, all sizes (thumbnail we do use PNG)

Video - Containers MPEG-TS, MPEG-PS, MKV, MP4 with combination of Video codec H264/AVC, MPEG2 and audio codec, AAC, AAC PLUS, AC3 and MPEG audio

Audio - MP3, AAC, ALAC, FLAC, AC3, WAV, LPCM"

Look forward to testing the profile. As far as AAC audio, only 2 channel stereo is passed, AAC 5.1 is not supported. Also, mp4 video is occasionally pixelated from what I've seen in my testing.

Dennis
June 28th, 2013, 02:57 PM
Thank you for the information regarding format support.

Did you have a chance to try the pre-release version I sent you? We can fine-tune and tweak it further based on your testing.

Robert Grant
June 28th, 2013, 05:22 PM
Yes I have done some preliminary testing. I was hoping that the MKV profile would remux DTS audio to AAC rather than a full conversion. Will report more later on this. Also, as noted earlier, the Hopper passes AAC 5.1 audio as AAC 2.0. So an AC3 option should be offered along with AAC in the MKV profile.

Dennis
June 28th, 2013, 05:55 PM
Ok, I'll add AC3 to MKV - thank you (I can send it to you via support). I'm not sure what you mean by remuxing DTS to AAC? Do you mean remuxing the file, keeping the video and converting DTS to AAC? That's what should be happening now.

Robert Grant
June 29th, 2013, 04:44 AM
Yes, please send me the patch with AC3. That should solve the audio problem. As far as remux, that function is working with H264/DTS to H264/AAC on a video I'm now watching. Unfortunately, the picture is unstable. Although mostly clean, the video suffers from frequent pixelation. Not sure if you can tweak this or not.

Robert Grant
June 29th, 2013, 07:58 AM
However, in another video with original Matroska H264/AAC5.1 coding, the conversion to H264/AAC with subtitle burn-in looks clean with no pixelation. BTW the default 12 pitch Arial white subtitle is perfect size for me. It's small but bright with black outline. Nice.

Dennis
June 29th, 2013, 09:46 AM
I'll send you an update through support.

If there is any pixelation during a conversion, we can fix it up, but if pixelation shows up on a remuxed file, then it's likely to be coming from the original file, since remuxing keeps the original video stream as-is. Can you please confirm whether there is pixelation in the original video and also whether the video is being converted or remuxed?

Robert Grant
June 29th, 2013, 03:08 PM
I viewed one remuxed video in nearly its entirety. Just two small instances about half way through a 2 hour video where slight pixelation occurred around the outlines of moving objects. Nothing to worry about here. I'll check some others when I have some time.

More importantly, I installed the updated device profile you provided allowing AC3 with the Matroska container. This resolved several issues. First it allows on the fly remuxing of H264/DTS or H264/AAC to H264/AC3. The remuxing is of course much faster than converting. Additionally, I'm now able to burn-in subtitles with the AC3 profile and not lose 5.1 channel audio as I reported earlier with the MPEG2/MP2 profile.

This resolves most of my concerns and leads me to believe that the KRR product is very well suited for use with the Dish Hopper/Joey media renderer.

Thanks very much for your effort, Dennis. Good show.

Dennis
June 29th, 2013, 10:57 PM
Thank you, Robert - I'm glad to hear of the good results you are getting with the Dish and KRR!

Robert Grant
June 30th, 2013, 04:58 AM
In further testing, I've noted that pixelation occurs with high bitrates when streaming files through to my Dish Hopper media renderer. Not sure if this is the device or the wiring on my network, but an MKV file at 6600 kbps will frequently pixelate before and after remuxing. When played directly from PC to monitor, however, the video is clean at max bitrate with no artifacts. Using the bitrate limiter on the Hopper/Joey device profile, I can fix this problem. However, this then slowly converts video rather than the faster remuxing I prefer.

Dennis
June 30th, 2013, 10:22 AM
It could be that the Dish can't handle high bitrates (6600 kbps is medium-to-high for h264 encoding). Is there a way to play files off a USB stick on the Dish? If there is, it may be a good idea to try that and see if that plays. That'll tell us if the player in Dish can handle this file in the first place. If it produces pixelation as well, then we know the problem.

Limiting the bitrate will trigger full transcoding, as each frame has to be re-compressed to fit within the new bitrate, so remuxing is not possible. A wireless network should handle 6-7 Mbps, if you have a strong signal and are running an N or higher network.

Robert Grant
July 1st, 2013, 11:17 AM
Well, I tried plugging in USB stick, but this step won't work with this device. Connecting external drive triggers the re format dialogue as Dish Hopper only uses USB drives for archiving stored content from satellite programming. I'm using a wired network, not sure what the intranet speed is, but I have noted some artifacts with low bit rate (2,363 kBps) H264 files as well as higher bit rate ones. Rather than limit bit rate, it seems that if I just do a full conversion rather than remux or stream, all artifacts are removed. This is not always the case, though. Some remuxed files stream perfectly well, some do not. My conclusion is that H264 level 51 high profile is fine for converted files, but with remuxed files, your mileage may vary. This is based on limited testing. The intranet speed or Hopper processing speed is probably not the issue, here. Some files just seem cleaner than others when streamed or remuxed.

Dennis
July 1st, 2013, 05:31 PM
Ok, if you get similar artifacts at around 2 Mbps, then network is probably not the culprit.

If you want, please send one of your files to support here (through Dropbox or another file sharing site) and I could test them on other devices to see if same artifacts are there or not. Playing on the PC may not be an accurate representation, since some software may be smoothing these out.

Robert Grant
July 3rd, 2013, 04:14 AM
I'll try to send the file that's giving me the most trouble at a later time. Now that you've released the 1.7.0.0 update, I can confirm that the conversion option for AC3 audio with the MPEG2 profile does display correctly for the Dish Hopper/Joey device. I tested this profile with an external subtitle burn in option and can report that the converted file with subs streams smoothly. Bravo!

My remaining issues with KRR concern metadata and subtitling. I do not have metadata available for any of my files. When I try to retrieve online metadata from any of the four sources now available, I always receive an "Error connecting to online source!" message. Due to the connection error, changing file for search purposes to eliminate extraneous information does not help. For reference, the Mezzmo media server has retrieved metadata for all but one of these same files with no manual input.

My final issue concerns subtitling. Certain devices do not support embedded subtitles. Apple TV is one, and the Dish Hopper/Joey satellite receiver is another. I've confirmed this with tech support. However, on files with embedded subtitles the subtitle box is not greyed out on the transcode file window and I'm allowed to make a subrip(eng) selection. However, this has never worked for me because of the device limitations and should probably be greyed out in the device profile.

Also, it seems that KRR will not recognize the .sub extension for external burning in. I've renamed with the .eng.sub extension and transferred both the sub and idx file to the correct folder, but still no luck. This is the file that has a subpack folder of many subtitles for various episodes. I'll see if I can send a portion of it to you. Again, for reference, Mezzmo can burn in these subs by simply selecting the burn in option with no further manual effort.

Dennis
July 3rd, 2013, 10:00 AM
Thank you - having the files here (at least the subtitles themselves) will allow me to check why they are not being picked up and used by KRR.

The checkbox for embedded subtitles is only applicable for manual transcoding, so these embedded subtitles won't be used during normal streaming/transcoding if your device does not support them.

With the connection issue - I'll need to see a log to know the exact error, can you please try retrieving metadata for one of the files with logging enabled and then send the log to support and I'll check.

Robert Grant
July 14th, 2013, 02:32 AM
Just to update where I am now with using KRR on the Dish Hopper/Joey satellite receiver:

1) Macroblocking does not occur with a 1080p monitor attached to the Joey auxiliary device. The issue probably lies with the 720p projector attached to the Hopper main device.

2) Changed the device profile by making matroska format default conversion preference, removed the aac audio codec from matroska and reordered the video formats to place matroska above MP4. This ensures converting with H264/AC3 codec in matroska container and avoids using MP4 whenever possible due to 2 channel stereo only AAC audio limitations of Hopper/Joey.


<Format id="mpeg2" format="mpeg" system="NTSC" dlna="MPEG_PS_NTSC" encode="1">
<Codec id="mpeg2_ntsc" />
<Codec id="ac3" />
<Codec id="mp2" />"
</Format>

<Format id="matroska" format="matroska,webm" encode="1" default="1">
<Codec id="h264_level51high" />
<Codec id="ac3" />

</Format>
<Format id="h264" format="mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2" dlna="MP4" encode="0">
<Codec id="h264_level51high" />
<Codec id="aac" />
</Format>

Dennis
July 14th, 2013, 10:47 AM
Thank you for the information on that profile. With encode="0" in MP4, files won't be converted to it. The "aac" codec specifies 2 channels maximum, so any file with 5.1 or higher will be converted to MKV, since it's the default one. This basically means that the order of them does not matter, because KRR will process them according to the above conditions, rather than the order.

I've updated the stock profile to reflect your changes - thanks!

Robert Grant
July 15th, 2013, 11:21 AM
Could you please explain the encode="0" a bit more? I don't quite understand it. Also, the aac tag does seem to have priority over AC3 in MKV coding with AAC 5.1 channel audio.

Here's the behavior I've seen with the stock Hopper/Joey profile without manual transcoding:

1) Mp4/aac 2.0 streams with no remuxing or transcoding.
2) Mp4/aac 5.1 remuxes in the matroska format to H264/aac 2 channel audio.
3) If I remove the aac line from the code in the matroska instructions, then Mp4/aac 5.1 remuxes to H264/AC3 5.1 (this is the preferred result due to Hopper/Joey audio limitations).

The desired behavior is to only allow aac to stream when it is not aac 5.1 channel audio or more. Any other way to do this?

Dennis
July 15th, 2013, 12:58 PM
Sure - don't hesitate to ask if anything is not clear, as it may be too clear in my head :)

With encode="0" it means such files are passed through natively, but this format is never remuxed or converted to. Basically it says to KRR - "if you match such a file, let it pass through" and that's it.

The MP4 definition for Dish is correct in that it limits AAC to stereo only. Anything not stereo (or not h264 in MP4) will be transcoded. I do not see how it will be remuxed to AAC stereo though in Matroska, since that's not in the device profile. Did you make further changes to the profile after your post above? Can you please post your Matroska format as you have it currently?

Robert Grant
July 15th, 2013, 04:47 PM
Thanks for that information. I'm still kinda slow on the uptake, but I'll think I'll get it eventually.

But for better understanding, I looked at the original stock profile from version 1.7 and have a question about MP4:

<Video>
<Format id="mpeg2" format="mpeg" system="NTSC" dlna="MPEG_PS_NTSC" encode="1">
<Codec id="mpeg2_ntsc" />
<Codec id="ac3" />
<Codec id="mp2" />"
</Format>
<Format id="h264" format="mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2" dlna="MP4" encode="0">
<Codec id="h264_level51high" />
<Codec id="aac" />
</Format>
<Format id="matroska" format="matroska,webm" encode="1">
<Codec id="h264_level51high" />
<Codec id="ac3" />
<Codec id="aac" />
</Format>
</Video>

Using this profile, how would KRR handle an MP4 h264/aac 5.1 format (note: no default and aac codec in matroska)?

Dennis
July 15th, 2013, 05:20 PM
With that stock definition from 1.7.0, KRR will take an MP4 with h264/AAC 5.1 and find that it's not supported natively, because "aac" is limited to 1 or 2 channels. It will then try to find whether it can remux the video and yes, it can - to a "matroska" container, since the video codec ids are the same. It will then check if it can remux the audio as well, but since "matroska" there also has "aac", which is limited to stereo, it can't remux a 5.1 AAC into it. Thus, it'll pick the first audio codec available, which is in this case AC3 (which also supports 5.1). So, the result should be remuxed video (h264) and converted audio (AC3 5.1) in an MKV container.

Robert Grant
July 15th, 2013, 07:35 PM
Thanks for that very thorough explanation. With just that one example, you describe most of what a device profile does. My system behaves a bit differently, though, so I'll send a log when I have the chance. Bottom line: the profile I worked out and posted seems to be the way to go when connected to a 5.1 channel sound system.

Dennis
July 15th, 2013, 08:29 PM
Ok, we'll go through the logs of course. One thing to keep in mind with device profiles - if you do a manual transcoding for the device, then that takes precedence over the settings in the device profile. Also, if you changed the profile, did some transcoding and then changed the profile back again, the files you transcoded using modified settings will still be used. This is all of course until you clear them out. This can be done by double-clicking on a file in KRR, then going to the Transcoding tab and deleting all entries there. Another way to clear up transcoding overrides is to right-click on your device in the Devices pane and use the Delete Transcoded Files command there.